ISIL does not recognise the values of humanity
- By defencematters
We have to realise that the Islamic State (ISIL) has taken root, says UN Special representative for Iraq Ján Kubišat a Globsec conference in Bratislava.
Andrej Matisak
“We have to realise that the Islamic State (ISIL) has taken root. It has demonstrated basic abilities to take care of the territory and the population that are under its control. So far, I cannot see any reason to say that ISIL will collapse because it would not be able do manage areas of its domination,” says UN Special representative for Iraq Ján Kubiš. The former Slovak foreign minister also worked in a similar position in Afghanistan. The following interview with him took place at a Globsec conference in Bratislava.
What risks do you face in your position in Iraq? Are they similar to those in Afghanistan? In the past, we wrote that in Afghanistan you were a desired target.
It sounds interesting, but I must say it might not fully correspond to reality. The UN, and I am talking about the organisation not about myself, was not at that position in Afghanistan. I must say that, when looking back. Of course, we lost some people in Afghanistan. Some of them were directly from the UN mission. Unfortunately, such things happen when you work in crisis regions. From this point of view, Iraq is even more complicated. The Islamic State (ISIL) considers the whole international community its target. And I am its representative. ISIL has completely stepped out of the international community. The Islamic State represents the absolute negation of all standards and values. Of any kind. Including those professed by the United Nations and including those accepted by the Islamic world. ISIL does not recognise the values of humanity. It murders, mutilates corpses, destroys historical memory of entire nations.
Despite that, the Islamic State finds supporters. Even hundreds of people from the West are flocking to it. How do you explain that?
There are people who like what the Islamic State wants to create. They are impressed by it. They are joining ISIL and are willing to forget that they are humans. Such fascination with the Islamic State is rather a topic for psychologists. I do not want to dare to explain these motivations. But in political terms it can be said that part of the population in Iraq and Syria supports or at least tolerates ISIL. It has deep roots in the way the previous governments and regimes in the region acted. They suppressed the human rights and rights of some population groups. Today, the Iraqi government is unifying. It includes representatives of all political and religious groups. The government is dominated by Shiites, but there are also Sunnis, Kurds and others. The efforts are not always sufficient, but governmental structures are more and more open for Sunnis. Not with the aim to have a regime in Iraq similar to that before 2003. It is simply necessary for Sunnis to get certain rights. However, the process needs to be accelerated. It would help in the fight against ISIL.
How so?
Those who tolerate the Islamic State were not able to achieve their rights under previous governments. Now, in Iraq I see a will to change it. It is the understanding of the fact that without progress in the political sphere ISIL cannot be liquidated. It cannot be achieved just by military means. But I think that the political will to change things in Iraq still meets with reluctance and fear. Some steps can also be risky. Such as providing weapons to the Sunni volunteers or greater autonomy for the Sunni tribes in their provinces. Yes, it entails a risk but it needs to be done. Progress in this area is still slow. It encounters arguments that part of Sunnis will still support the Islamic State.
To what degree are you involved in the implementation of political changes in Iraq?
I help with the process. It is part of my mandate. Our partners require it. Of course, diplomatic processes often take place outside the media spotlight. Yet, I have a strong political mandate and I continue what my predecessors started. I mediate contacts, I participate in finding framework solutions in cooperation with all parties.
Can you describe the process more specifically?
We try to work even with those Sunni leaders who are not in the government. Or who are from different reasons outside Iraq. We have discussions with them and try to encourage them to look for things that will unite them. Because Sunni political representation is extremely fragmented. It cooperates with both Sunni and Shiite leaders from the government with the goal to present some concept of national reconciliation in the future. We are not there yet. Such a concept should support the unity of Iraq. We work also with neighbouring countries, which should play a greater role in supporting the Iraqi government. At the same time they can be helpful in cooperation with various segments of the society, Shiites, Sunnis as well as Kurds. But we cannot blaze abroad all our initiatives.
When you talk about neighbouring countries, is it possible to eliminate the Islamic State in Iraq without addressing the situation in Syria?
The complete elimination is not possible. The Islamic State is still very strong. It can resist militarily, it has developed tactics and strategy. If, however, the different parts of society in Iraq are united, we could suppress ISIL. It will continue to have an influence. The Islamic State’s ideology may be interesting for some people. Yet, the situation does not need to be as it is now. The definitive solution of the ISIL problem is not possible without dealing with Syria. But we can reach a situation in Iraq when the majority Sunnis in the country is not under control of the Islamic State.
It is just a so-called state, but why is ISIL successful, to some degree, in the building of the public and social structures on the territory under its control?
Yes, it is a so-called state, and I hope ISIL will never be a real state. But it forms some elements of administration and try to control people in the area under its domination. It includes also providing for basic needs of the population. ISIL does all of this. We have to realise that the Islamic State has taken root. It has demonstrated basic abilities to take care of the territory and the population that are under its control. So far, I cannot see any reason to say that ISIL will collapse because it will not be able do manage areas of its domination. See how the Islamic State conducts military operations.
Unfortunately, it is an extremely strong enemy. They have warriors as well as people who know how to take care of administration of conquered areas. ISIL is still able to sell oil and stolen historical artefacts, and get money from various supporters. However, this is a question of implementing radical measures in the financial sector, which would restrict this. The international community is still only at the beginning in this area. It is necessary to apply a much stricter regime. It should also include the steady flow of foreign fighters streaming to ISIL. We must impose a much stricter measures against those who take part in it as mediators. Whether they are individuals, companies or states that make it possible. We are significantly lagging behind in this regard.
Can you see at least efforts to change it?
I can see some signs. Many things that could have been addressed through Turkey are much more difficult to manage. But it is still not impossible. Including relocation of people. Borders are still permeable, so to speak. And we openly admit that there is a lot of corruption almost everywhere.
Photo Credit: PEREX
